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Just Don't Mention the Virgin Mary Print

 

[First published in the Baptist Times, 10 April 2008]

 

Just don't mention the Virgin Mary .....

            At the early morning prayer group, Rod said he wouldn't be here on Wednesday because he'd been asked to give his testimony.

            Nobody questioned him, so I didn't like to. Was he testifying in court as a witness or as the defendant? He didn't appear to have criminal tendencies.

            As a Catholic coming to a Baptist church, I was prepared to make adjustments, but the language barrier was unexpected.

            I'd already had a shock at the Sunday service when one of the leaders (and there seemed to be so many!) said from the platform, ‘Now let's worship,' and everyone rudely ignored the invitation; instead they sprang to their feet and sang ‘Shine Jesus Shine!'

I'd thought we would fall to our knees, or at least fall silent. ‘Worship' in Catholic language is adoration, as in periods of wordless contemplation.

Contemplative prayer didn't seem to be Baptist tradition. There were reflection services, but rather short and restless. Silence was perceived as nothing happening.

I wasn't sure how representative this church was of Baptist churches generally: about half the congregation had come from other denominations; others labelled themselves as evangelical. I'd worked out that ‘evangelical' wasn't a denomination but for a while thought it was a synonym for ‘charismatic', which caused a Methodist/Baptist friend to convulse with laughter. ‘Don't tell the minister that: in his last church the evangelicals and charismatics were at war with each other!'

As well as words having different meanings, there were phrases I couldn't fathom. ‘When did you become a Christian?' was a common question (though when the questioner heard I was Catholic, it sometimes changed to, ‘When are you going to become a Christian?'!)

Most Catholics don't talk easily about their faith. Catholic culture is introvert and the relationship with God is intimate and private. Being asked for details of it, by someone you've only just met, is like being asked about the intimate side of your marriage. I was horrified when someone said, ‘We'll get you to give your testimony at the women's service,' as though it was the cabaret at a party.

Also, ‘becoming a Christian' is seen as a process, not a moment, and that process is lifelong - eternal-life-long. Catholics don't put much faith in death; they continue to pray for people who have died. I don't pray for my friends who have died to rest in peace - they're not that type - but I pray for them to go from strength to strength and from happiness to happiness in their eternal journey with Jesus Christ.

So I would say I became a Christian by being born into the human race Jesus died for, am becoming one throughout my life, and will still be learning to be one when I die.

This answer was interpreted by some church members as a sign that I had no experience of Jesus as ‘my personal saviour' at all and had not yet begun. Several people suggested that I might like to be baptized. I was in a Baptist church, after all.

I explained I'd been baptized as a child and freely reaffirmed it as an adult. And I'd undergone total immersion in water at Lourdes, the French shrine, as a symbol of dying to sin and rising in Christ. I didn't feel the need to be baptized one more time.

Younger church members couldn't see why changing churches was such a big deal. Nor could God, I believe. Every time I prayed anxiously, the answer was, ‘Don't make it complicated. Go where you find me easily.'

Sometimes I found him more easily at Mass, sometimes at Baptist services.

Older Christians understood the disorienting effect of changing church ‘families' and were supportive through feelings of disloyalty, but many assumed my culture shock was in coming from a ‘dead' church with formal worship into a ‘live' contemporary church, and this was very far from the reality.

I'd been part of Catholic charismatic renewal for 17 years by 2001 when I first came to Emmanuel church, and the songs and style of praying were very similar to the Catholic meetings.

But the focal point of every Mass is communion: all the singing, praying, Bible readings and teaching are preparation for receiving Jesus physically and spiritually. So a Sunday service without communion left me feeling it hadn't begun yet. And the sermons were so long!

I loved the avoidance of formality, the lack of distance between minister and people, and among people.

I loved the huge hubbub of noise at the beginning and end of every service, as people ‘fellowshipped' (and what on earth did that word mean?!) with each other. They didn't rush off after the service but worked hard at getting to know, love and encourage one another and welcome newcomers.

I loved the flexible form of service, with people going up to talk about a project, draw attention to some cause or share some experience.

Most of all, I loved the people.

Sometimes, though, I felt, ‘Are we ever going to pray?' The Sunday after 9/11 was the first time I saw the congregation sit down and pray in silence.

I respected the desire to break with traditional liturgy, though I sometimes missed the poverty of age-worn words repeated with fresh commitment, and missed the near-anonymous role of the laity - individual personalities submerged into one body, one voice.

I applauded the successful attempts to escape from ‘churchianity', though we slid into other cultures at times: school assembly, stand-up comedy, American televangelism.

Some of the culture shock I experienced came simply from changing size of church. The Catholic churches in London held five or six Sunday services, each attended by hundreds of church members from congregations of two to six thousand.

Many evangelicals I spoke to assumed that, because Sunday Mass attendance is required, Catholics only went because they had to, or from fear of hell, and had no ‘personal relationship with Jesus as their saviour'.

But this disregarded the numbers of people willingly attending Mass not just on Sundays but weekdays, and people going to prayer groups, reflection services, penitential services and devotions such as the rosary or Stations of the Cross (forms of meditation on the life of Jesus), Benediction or adoration. And there were always people who had popped into church after shopping or on their way home from work, to pray privately.

So why did I leave the Catholic Church, when I loved and do love so much of it?

I'm not a ‘disaffected Catholic': I have no problem with the theology, though I lost patience with some of the emphasis - too many homilies on church history or the lives of not-very-interesting minor saints - at the expense of nitty-gritty help to make it through next week without losing touch with Jesus Christ.

Years earlier I had felt, after praying, that every church has its weaknesses and denomination wasn't important enough to change; I'd accept the starting point God had given me and let him use it for good. But over the last decade, I'd been finding church services harder and harder to get through. Something within me was shouting, ‘Move!' - whether at the church or at myself, I wasn't sure.

I'd belonged to a thriving prayer group which drew in people from local housing estates, from the streets, rehab clinics, disabled people's homes, travellers' sites .... it was fantastic - till a new priest took over the parish and, in his words, ‘put a stop to all that.'

I went to the first Baptist service with a neighbour, and for five years continued going to both Baptist and Catholic churches, before finally choosing to become a member of our local Baptist church in London. The first communion service I attended, after making that choice, felt very heavy. ‘Lord,' I prayed, ‘I can't take on another family history!'

He showed me it wasn't ‘another family' and most of the history was shared. Catholics and Baptists were branches of one tree, growing from the same trunk. I'd grown up with the trunk. Now all I had to take on was the bit where it branched.

I knew none of the Baptist saints - Spurgeon, Wycliffe, Smith Wigglesworth ... And people didn't want to know mine - Julian of Norwich, Therese of Lisieux, Padre Pio, Mother Teresa. And why the electrified silence when I mentioned the Virgin Mary?

Some people even saw praying to her as idolatry, a major reason why Catholics were Christian, okay, but less Christian than the real ones!

To Catholics, Mary is no goddess but someone God made great and ‘full of grace' because she gave God a free hand in her life. She's a role model and intercessor, not a substitute for Jesus. I'd ask her to pray for me, as I'd ask the person sitting next to me in church, especially if their faith was stronger than mine at the time.

Church history is riddled with abuses, past and present, trunk and branches. I'm more familiar with the Catholic ones - abuses of power and wealth, and arrogance: professing to be ‘the one true church' while claiming the trunk and disowning the branches.

I'm gradually becoming familiar with abuses in other churches: claims to be ‘the only Bible-believing church' or the only one preaching the gospel or the most ‘dynamic' or ‘radical' in the area.

We're not as divided as we think we are, either in sin or in anointing by God.

Most of our differences are cultural - perceptual, not theological. The only religious gulf I had to cross was receiving communion in a church that believes the eucharist is not ‘live' but a symbolic ritual of memorial. To me, memorials are for dead people. Jesus is live.

I heard a senior member of Emmanuel teach: ‘Of course we don't believe the bread and wine actually are Jesus' body and blood; that would be ridiculous! The Catholics believe that!'

Of course it's ridiculous to believe that Jesus actually becomes bread and wine, food that becomes our flesh and feeds our spirit - as ridiculous as believing that God could be so earthy as to take the form of a human cell in some ordinary woman's womb and be born in a no-hope town.

And yet - Baptist and Catholic, evangelical, charismatic, Christians of every name, form and shade of meaning - we worship a God who in humility makes himself ridiculous, to save us from our ridiculous separateness.

The least we can do is join him.

-    0    -

Clare Nonhebel is author of six novels and five non-fiction books. The latest, ‘Finding Oasis', is available as an e-book from her website clarenonhebel.com. She is currently working on a novel about New Age and Christianity.

 

Comments
Add New Search

Jenny (217.43.161.xxx) 2008-04-16 22:38:16
Thank you for sharing your journey and continuing to help me in mine. Jenny

Maureen (79.67.212.xxx) 2008-04-24 10:46:57
Clare, I enjoyed reading this - it sounds so authentic - without bias. I think
that a combination of the best of both religions would be wonderful but I
personally wouldn't be able to sacrifice the best in mine. The important thing
is to be where we are called to be.
Clare, God bless you on your journey
always. Love and best wishes always, Maureen

Anonymous
Clare Nonhebel (79.67.155.xxx) 2008-04-29 11:07:47
Would the person who sent an anonymous comment (zoolander99) like to email again
and identify who you are, and the person you quoted? Your comment is
interesting, though I'm not sure what the person you mention actually said so I
can't respond. I'm happy to discuss this if you give a return email address. God
bless, Clare

My Question
zoolander99 (81.159.104.xxx) 2008-04-30 22:54:57
I've remembered what it was I posted about now! Sorry about pseudonyms: it's
partly because of spam and partly because I like the anonymity of the internet.
I have a "normal" pseudonym, "Sarah Gretchen Jones" and a
"silly" one: the latter refers to a rather daft film!

I posted because
having read your very interesting piece here about your journey from being a
practising Catholic to becoming a member of a Baptist church locally I noticed
how you had defended not being rebaptised, this time "as a believer",
when people in the church you had begun to attend queried you about it, and
wondered what the official policy was.

Anyway, I wandered off to look round
your site, and then wandered onto your church's site, and had a look there. Then
when, just out of curiosity I watched a video clip of a recent baptism, I
suddenly remembered your article. The lady getting baptised, Beatrice Etunyi, in
what she said about how people had brought her to that step, made me wonder
whether people in the congregation are gently starting again to try and get you
into the baptismal pool as well! Have your views changed on this subject, and
could they? How do you deal with issues like this in your new "location"
on the ecumenical spectrum?

Once again thanks for an interesting piece.

answer
Clare (79.68.167.xxx) 2008-05-01 08:56:37
It was interesting, Beatrice's testimony (if anyone else wants to hear what she
had to say, it's on the website gbc.org.uk - video of her baptism), and for me
it made the point that - as Maureen commented above - the important thing is to
be where God calls you to be, and that may involve changing your views. The
minister of the church doesn't have a problem with my being baptised in another
rite, and said my immersion at Lourdes, as a symbol of dying to sin and rising
to new life in Jesus Christ, was baptism, in his terms. When I pray about it,
what comes to mind is the scripture quote (from Isaiah?) about a farmer not
going on ploughing the same piece of land, but moving on to sow the seed and do
the harvesting. I still feel that getting baptised again would be going over the
same ground - almost saying God didn't do it right the first time, or the
second, or third! But we shall see ....! What is your own view; you don't say?

Reply
zoolander99 (81.159.104.xxx) 2008-05-03 20:02:42
Thank you for your reply. Could you maybe share a little more about what
happened at Lourdes, in terms of what prompted it, and who suggested it, and how
it all worked out?

Maureen (79.67.174.xxx) 2008-05-05 15:32:08
Clare I had another read of Don't mention the Virgin Mary". My second
thought was -The road you are on and the road you've left are going to meet in
the future and become one road. Ifeel the one you've left has the greatest
richness but has to become more open to the Holy Spirit.God is with you in your
journeying.

To zoolander
Clare (79.67.180.xxx) 2008-05-08 16:04:03
I'll put something in my blog about going to Lourdes.

My view
zoolander (79.68.178.xxx) 2008-06-18 16:27:50
You say what's my view? A baptism is a baptism, and unrepeatable. If infant
baptism was not baptism, then virtually no one would have been validly baptised
for over a thousand years, and to assert such a divine abandonment of the Church
for so long would be a slur of the first order against the Holy Spirit. (Of
course that applies to other matters as well). Conversely, if infant baptism is
baptism, then if one repeats it for a second time, there is nothing to stop one
repeating it for a third time, or a fourth, and so on, every time one feels one
needs an exciting spiritual experience, and that is of course nonsense, although
highly prevalent across the pond. Im not sure your new confessional confreres
have really worked out what they think about all this.
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